Intro to Regenerative Design (Mini-Course part 3/3)

[00:00:09] Welcome to The Green Urbanist, a podcast for urbanists fighting climate change. I'm Ross.

[00:00:24] Welcome to Lesson 3 and the final part of this mini-course on kick-starting your sustainability-focused career in the built environment.

[00:00:32] So grateful and excited that you've come on this journey with me and I hope you've enjoyed the course.

[00:00:38] So as a quick recap, in Lesson 1 we talked about some of the paths that you can take to start to build an understanding of sustainability and bring that into your career.

[00:00:48] I suggest everyone start by becoming a bit of a sustainability generalist, then developing a specialism in something you're passionate about if that works for your career.

[00:00:56] And the third thing that I think everyone should do really is to become a sustainability champion and influence your community and your colleagues and your practice.

[00:01:07] Lesson 2, then we got into a free training session on NetSea or Carbon and I explained what that is in simple terms

[00:01:14] and what it will start to mean for your practice as you start to bring some of this into your work.

[00:01:20] And in that session you got a sneak peek at my course, Sustainability Essentials for Built Environment Professionals as well.

[00:01:27] Now I really believe that everyone working in the built environment can reorientate their career towards sustainability

[00:01:35] and take meaningful action on climate change through their work.

[00:01:38] But it all starts with learning, gaining and understanding, building your confidence so you can start to, you know,

[00:01:46] start from a position of understanding to bring this into your work.

[00:01:49] In this lesson you're going to get another free excerpt from the course and we're actually going to go beyond NetSea or Carbon into the topic of regenerative design.

[00:01:59] This is a topic that you probably, you might have heard of.

[00:02:01] It's becoming more and more talked about in the last couple of years

[00:02:04] and it really is the direction that all of us need to be moving in, going beyond just NetSea or Harem to the environment

[00:02:11] to actually having a net positive impact on the world around us and on people and nature through our work as urbanists.

[00:02:21] So here's the free training.

[00:02:22] As this is a podcast you're going to just hear the audio of the training session

[00:02:27] and that isn't really the best experience because there are visuals, there are slides that go along with what I'm saying.

[00:02:34] So if you can, go to the episode description and find the link, which is right at the top of the description,

[00:02:40] to the video training session.

[00:02:44] But if you're doing something where you can't actually watch a screen and you just want to have the audio,

[00:02:49] here's the audio of that lesson.

[00:02:53] Hi there and welcome to lesson three, regenerative design.

[00:02:59] Regenerative design is the latest in a long list of buzzwords associated with sustainability.

[00:03:04] But I think it's one that actually warrants the hype.

[00:03:08] So the idea of regenerative design or regenerative practice comes from an acknowledgement that actually,

[00:03:15] as we learned in the first lesson, if climate change is here,

[00:03:19] if we've already released so much greenhouse gas emissions into the atmosphere,

[00:03:24] and if we've had such a negative impact on ecosystems and on natural systems around the world,

[00:03:30] which we have, it's actually not enough at this point just to become net zero carbon,

[00:03:35] just to neutralize our impact going forward.

[00:03:38] What we really need to do is to start having a positive impact and start regenerating natural systems

[00:03:45] and actually healing the planet and actually having benefits for society as well.

[00:03:52] So that's the sort of philosophical underpinning of regenerative design.

[00:03:55] It comes from this critique of sustainability that the idea of sustainability and achieving net zero carbon

[00:04:03] or net zero anything is really about minimizing harm.

[00:04:06] It's about doing less bad.

[00:04:09] Whereas once you tip over the neutrality or the net zero point,

[00:04:14] you get into doing net good,

[00:04:17] which is what regenerative design and a regenerative approach is all about.

[00:04:22] So in practical terms, that's about leaving habitats and biodiversity better off than how you found it.

[00:04:29] It's about producing more renewable energy than your building or your project needs

[00:04:34] and feeding that back into the wider grid.

[00:04:36] It's about capturing water, cleaning it, and actually producing more clean water than you need

[00:04:43] and feeding that into the wider environment.

[00:04:46] So there's all these ways that we can start to quantify something that is net positive or regenerative.

[00:04:50] But it is also a sort of wider, less tangible aspect of it.

[00:04:54] This idea of reconnecting with nature of, you know, here it says living and whole systems thinking,

[00:05:00] human and natural systems actively co-evolving.

[00:05:02] So this idea that actually we can move forward from this point in a much healthier and much more integrated way with nature

[00:05:09] and not as a way where we're just dominating and extracting from nature and from the world,

[00:05:14] which is largely how, you know, in our society we have been acting for hundreds of years, really.

[00:05:21] Now, regenerative design is far too big an idea to cover in one video.

[00:05:25] There's been lots of several books written about it,

[00:05:27] and I'll make some recommendations for further reading down below, of course, as always.

[00:05:33] But it is something that's really important.

[00:05:34] It's something that I think is going to become much, much more prominent in the coming years.

[00:05:38] And so I think the best way to explain it is actually just to lead with some examples.

[00:05:43] So one of the front runners, one of the earliest examples within our industry of looking at regenerative design

[00:05:49] and what that actually means practically,

[00:05:51] is something called the living building challenge.

[00:05:53] The living building challenge on the face looks quite similar to something like LEED or BREEAM.

[00:05:58] It's a certification system.

[00:06:00] But actually, as they explain on their website, the certification is just, you know,

[00:06:05] they call it a Trojan horse.

[00:06:06] It's just a way of getting people into the idea and the wider philosophy of regenerative design

[00:06:12] and reconnecting ourselves with natural systems

[00:06:15] and delivering positive outcomes for ourselves, for society and for nature.

[00:06:21] And some of the ways that living building challenge as a framework breaks down regenerative design

[00:06:27] is in these different petals.

[00:06:29] So there's seven petals.

[00:06:30] In a way, this is quite similar to if you're familiar with BREEAM,

[00:06:33] the sort of, you know, different topic areas.

[00:06:35] But it sets out clearly what it wants you to achieve

[00:06:38] to get this living building challenge accreditation.

[00:06:42] Net positive in energy use.

[00:06:44] Net positive in water use.

[00:06:47] Optimize well-being for people using your spaces.

[00:06:50] Restore a healthy interrelationship with nature.

[00:06:53] I mean, that's kind of quite a difficult thing to quantify,

[00:06:55] but interesting to see how schemes do it.

[00:06:57] Delivering beauty, uplifting the human spirit.

[00:07:00] There's an aspect of equity, supporting a just and equitable world.

[00:07:03] And then about the materials that we use, it says safe for all species through time.

[00:07:07] So that is, you know, to do with embodied carbon,

[00:07:10] but also to do with the impact of resource extraction.

[00:07:13] And can we do it in a way that actually is not damaging to the environment

[00:07:17] and making use of local materials and delivering schemes that are very in tune

[00:07:21] with their local habitats and local places.

[00:07:24] So there have been actually lots of living building challenge,

[00:07:28] mostly buildings, mostly one-off buildings,

[00:07:30] delivered in the US and a couple outside of the US, across the world as well.

[00:07:36] I'll link to their website so you can go and check that out and see what,

[00:07:39] you know, what's near you and look at some case studies and learn more about it.

[00:07:42] It's a really, really good structured framework for getting into

[00:07:45] the philosophy of regenerative design.

[00:07:48] And a very famous example that you may have heard of,

[00:07:51] of a living building challenge building,

[00:07:53] is the Bullet Center in Seattle.

[00:07:55] So this, as you can see, is a six-story commercial building.

[00:07:58] It's offices in downtown Seattle.

[00:08:01] And it has, it was built over 10 years ago.

[00:08:04] It was constructed in 2013, which means it was being designed,

[00:08:07] you know, even earlier than that.

[00:08:09] So it's making use of design and technology and engineering

[00:08:14] that's more than 10 years old.

[00:08:15] And yet, over the last 10 years, it has been net positive in energy.

[00:08:19] It's created 30% more energy than it needs over the last 10 years,

[00:08:24] using that huge array of photovoltaics on its roof.

[00:08:27] It's also been capturing, cleaning rainwater

[00:08:31] and using that for the internal systems,

[00:08:34] for drinking and for flushing toilets and taps and that kind of thing.

[00:08:37] And it's been net positive in its water use.

[00:08:39] It's been producing more clean water than it needs

[00:08:41] over the last 10 years as well.

[00:08:43] And really interesting to see that the designers actually designed it

[00:08:47] for a 250-year lifespan.

[00:08:50] You remember in the previous lesson,

[00:08:52] I spoke about most buildings these days

[00:08:54] being designed for a 60-year lifespan.

[00:08:56] This is 250 years.

[00:08:58] It's that kind of longevity

[00:09:00] that also comes into a regenerative design approach.

[00:09:02] This idea that we're designing things,

[00:09:06] places that will last the test of time,

[00:09:08] will be adaptable, will be robust going forward.

[00:09:12] Great, great case study.

[00:09:13] I hope to visit it someday.

[00:09:16] And it sort of feels like if you can do net positive energy

[00:09:19] with photovoltaics in Seattle,

[00:09:20] a famously not sunny place,

[00:09:22] you can probably do it almost anywhere.

[00:09:27] I want to move on to a wider example.

[00:09:30] And this is actually a scheme that has not been built yet.

[00:09:32] It's in design stage.

[00:09:33] It has planning permission.

[00:09:35] And it's very, very exciting.

[00:09:36] And I had a chance to interview the developer and the designers,

[00:09:39] Human Nature.

[00:09:40] They're called, the developer is called Human Nature.

[00:09:43] So that tells you they're sort of starting on the right foot.

[00:09:45] I'll link to that podcast and to their website in the episode description.

[00:09:49] But just to quickly cover this as a case study,

[00:09:53] which I think is really exciting and want to follow over the next couple of years,

[00:09:56] is they're looking at creating a regenerative place at a master plan scale.

[00:10:01] I think this has, this will eventually have something like 700 homes,

[00:10:04] as well as lots of supporting facilities.

[00:10:08] And it's the regeneration of a former industrial site

[00:10:11] in a town called Lewis in the south of England.

[00:10:15] So fantastic scheme.

[00:10:17] I love that it's not a single building.

[00:10:18] It's a place.

[00:10:19] They're creating a new neighborhood, a whole block of a town.

[00:10:23] And they are integrating it with that town.

[00:10:25] They're integrating it with the wider ecosystem,

[00:10:27] with the river that they front onto.

[00:10:29] And they're doing lots of interesting things around flood mitigation,

[00:10:33] net gain in terms of biodiversity.

[00:10:35] But they also have lots of social,

[00:10:38] regenerative social aspects to the scheme as well.

[00:10:41] And this slide is very full.

[00:10:43] I've taken this as a screenshot actually out of their planning application.

[00:10:46] So this is something they included in their planning application.

[00:10:49] And it's their 12 levers for transformational change

[00:10:53] that they're trying to leverage within their master plan.

[00:10:56] And you can see it includes things you would expect like energy and infrastructure,

[00:11:00] buildings, homes, sustainable mobility,

[00:11:03] but also gets into some really interesting social aspects

[00:11:06] of sustainability and regenerative approach.

[00:11:09] Things like stewardship,

[00:11:10] creating a place that people feel like they're a part of

[00:11:12] when they have stewardship of.

[00:11:14] Fostering enterprise and creativity for a strong local economy,

[00:11:18] not one that's extractive,

[00:11:19] but one that is actually regenerative for the place.

[00:11:22] Creating a place that's affordable,

[00:11:24] that creates community wealth.

[00:11:27] You know, changing behavior and fostering a regenerative culture,

[00:11:31] integrating with the bioregion ecosystem,

[00:11:34] thinking about public health and well-being.

[00:11:36] So, you know, some really, really interesting and kind of,

[00:11:40] you know, considerations that you don't often see people thinking about

[00:11:45] as part of their planning application

[00:11:47] and their sort of technical requirements to just,

[00:11:50] you know, get something allowed to be built.

[00:11:53] One to keep an eye on over the next couple of years.

[00:11:56] And then I want to just talk a little bit about

[00:11:58] some of the ways that regenerative design

[00:12:03] is moving into the industry more widely.

[00:12:06] Also beyond, you know, one-off spectacular buildings,

[00:12:09] because ultimately we need this to become really widespread and mainstream.

[00:12:12] An interesting one to look at,

[00:12:15] which is UK-based,

[00:12:16] is the Regenerative Architecture Index.

[00:12:20] So just to say that again,

[00:12:22] Regenerative Architecture Index.

[00:12:24] This is something that was put together

[00:12:26] by a bunch of architects in the UK

[00:12:28] as a way of highlighting and celebrating

[00:12:33] and sharing best practice around the transition

[00:12:36] from where we are now,

[00:12:37] which is a sort of degenerative approach to architecture

[00:12:40] towards a regenerative approach to architecture.

[00:12:44] And they see this shift happening in the industry

[00:12:46] and they wanted to use this as a touch point

[00:12:48] where they invite architecture practices to submit

[00:12:52] how they are transitioning towards a regenerative approach.

[00:12:56] And then they've published that

[00:12:57] in a copy of Architecture Today,

[00:13:02] which is a popular architecture magazine.

[00:13:04] And so that's an example of how

[00:13:06] this idea is starting to move into the mainstream.

[00:13:08] And again, I'll link to this in the lesson description,

[00:13:13] but you can go and check that out

[00:13:14] and see actually what our real,

[00:13:16] you know, quite normal everyday architecture practices

[00:13:20] here in the UK.

[00:13:20] What are they doing to transition

[00:13:22] towards more regenerative approaches?

[00:13:24] I think lots of useful learnings there.

[00:13:27] And the final example I want to share with you,

[00:13:29] which is again, UK based,

[00:13:30] and I apologize for that.

[00:13:31] It's just the place that I know best

[00:13:33] because that's where I've worked.

[00:13:34] But something that you'll be aware of

[00:13:37] if you're working in the UK,

[00:13:38] which is biodiversity net gain.

[00:13:40] So that is a law.

[00:13:42] It is a requirement for new developments in England

[00:13:45] to deliver a 10% net gain in biodiversity

[00:13:49] on all development sites.

[00:13:51] And so that means developers basically

[00:13:53] have to survey the biodiversity,

[00:13:55] the ecological baseline of their site

[00:13:58] before any development work.

[00:14:00] And then they need to design a scheme

[00:14:02] that not only mitigates the impact of the development,

[00:14:06] but actually results in more biodiversity,

[00:14:07] 10% more biodiversity than is there originally.

[00:14:12] Now, this is interesting

[00:14:13] and really fantastic in many ways.

[00:14:16] You know, let's be honest,

[00:14:17] it's not going, you know,

[00:14:19] alone this law isn't going to reverse

[00:14:21] biodiversity decline,

[00:14:22] but it is having interesting impacts

[00:14:24] on the wider sector.

[00:14:25] So for instance,

[00:14:27] by forcing developers to be regenerative

[00:14:30] in this sense,

[00:14:31] it means they're avoiding sites

[00:14:32] that are already very rich in biodiversity

[00:14:34] because it would be almost impossible for them

[00:14:36] to get that 10% gain.

[00:14:38] So developers are now having to look at places,

[00:14:41] sites that are already degraded,

[00:14:43] that are already, you know,

[00:14:45] ecologically poor to build on

[00:14:47] so that then they have a lower baseline to improve on.

[00:14:50] So that's quite a positive thing in and of itself.

[00:14:54] But the other thing is,

[00:14:55] it's really rising biodiversity and ecology

[00:14:57] up to one of the top considerations now in design.

[00:15:01] It used to be that the landscape architect,

[00:15:04] the ecologist, if you had one,

[00:15:05] would come in towards the end of the process

[00:15:07] and would, you know,

[00:15:09] tell you where you could squeeze in a few trees

[00:15:11] and, you know, where,

[00:15:12] what areas you have to avoid

[00:15:13] because there's some newts or something like that.

[00:15:15] But now they're having to come in

[00:15:17] right at the beginning of the process

[00:15:18] and see actually,

[00:15:19] is this viable to actually develop on the site?

[00:15:22] And then if it is,

[00:15:23] how can we ensure we're developing it,

[00:15:25] designing it in a way

[00:15:26] that is improving biodiversity?

[00:15:29] Now it's not without its teething problems.

[00:15:32] I did an episode about this on the podcast

[00:15:34] about how it's in some cases not going very well.

[00:15:38] People need more training to sort of do it properly

[00:15:41] and there's some unintended outcomes.

[00:15:43] And I've spoken to landscape architects

[00:15:45] and ecologists about this.

[00:15:46] It's not perfect,

[00:15:47] but I think over time it will improve

[00:15:49] and we'll get to the point

[00:15:50] where this is overall a really, really positive thing.

[00:15:54] So that's it for this lesson on regenerative design.

[00:15:58] I hope you found that inspiring and motivating.

[00:16:01] Just to summarize the key points

[00:16:03] that we covered in this video,

[00:16:05] regenerative design means creating places and buildings

[00:16:08] that have a net positive benefit

[00:16:10] on society and the environment.

[00:16:12] It's about moving beyond the sustainability narrative

[00:16:15] of reducing harm

[00:16:17] to actually trying to create positive outcomes

[00:16:20] in various aspects of sustainability

[00:16:23] and our impact on the world around us.

[00:16:27] There are examples of regenerative buildings and places

[00:16:30] already in the world.

[00:16:32] We know it can be done.

[00:16:34] I would suggest having a look

[00:16:35] at the Living Building Challenge map

[00:16:38] so you can see which of these regenerative projects

[00:16:41] are near you

[00:16:42] or just to look at some more case studies.

[00:16:44] And a link to that is in the resources below.

[00:16:46] And I predict that this concept

[00:16:48] will become much more mainstream in the coming years.

[00:16:51] In many ways, that is a great thing

[00:16:53] because we quickly need to move

[00:16:55] beyond the degenerative do less harm model

[00:16:59] towards something that is much more positive focused.

[00:17:02] And that could be a real step change

[00:17:04] in how we design and plan the built environment.

[00:17:06] But equally, there is, I think,

[00:17:09] some challenges with the concept getting co-opted

[00:17:12] and used in unsustainable ways

[00:17:14] by people who just want to use it for marketing

[00:17:16] and that kind of thing.

[00:17:17] So be very careful how you're using it

[00:17:19] and how you interpret other people using it.

[00:17:22] And really important that we keep this,

[00:17:24] you know, true to the definition

[00:17:26] and the meaning of the word regenerative.

[00:17:28] Okay, thanks for watching this lesson

[00:17:31] and I'll see you in the next one.

[00:17:35] All right, well done.

[00:17:37] You've completed the mini training course

[00:17:38] and you've taken those first few steps

[00:17:40] towards building your understanding

[00:17:42] and confidence of sustainability

[00:17:44] to bring into your work.

[00:17:46] But this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[00:17:48] The next step for you is really to get onto my course,

[00:17:53] Sustainability Essentials for Built Environment Professionals

[00:17:55] and take your learning

[00:17:57] and your understanding to the next level.

[00:17:59] Just as a recap,

[00:18:00] the course is an online course

[00:18:02] of pre-recorded bite-sized lessons

[00:18:05] that cover a range of topics in urban sustainability.

[00:18:08] The entire course is about two hours in length

[00:18:10] and it's broken down into bite-sized chunks

[00:18:12] so you can take it at your own pace.

[00:18:14] Easiest way to explain what's in the course

[00:18:16] is just to share with you the course page

[00:18:18] and this is linked down below

[00:18:20] so you can go and have a look yourself.

[00:18:21] But here's what I want to show you

[00:18:23] is the course curriculum

[00:18:24] and the lessons that are in the course

[00:18:26] starting with looking at

[00:18:28] the science of climate change

[00:18:31] and going beyond maybe some of the really basic understanding

[00:18:34] that I'm sure you do have

[00:18:35] into really thinking about what is causing it,

[00:18:37] what's the role of us

[00:18:38] as built environment professionals

[00:18:40] and some of the,

[00:18:41] a little bit of doom and gloom

[00:18:42] and a little bit of that difficult stuff

[00:18:45] of talking about how bad would climate change get

[00:18:47] and some of the effects.

[00:18:48] But we're quickly moving on from that stuff

[00:18:51] which I know can be quite heavy to deal with

[00:18:54] and we're getting into what can we do in our careers

[00:18:56] and what sort of positive, proactive approach can we take.

[00:18:59] We talk about net zero carbon.

[00:19:01] You've gotten a sneak peek of some of that

[00:19:03] in the previous lesson.

[00:19:04] There's more in the course.

[00:19:05] Similarly with regenerative design

[00:19:08] which you've just watched.

[00:19:11] And then the lessons that you haven't seen yet.

[00:19:13] Climate adaptation explained.

[00:19:15] The biodiversity crisis and urban ecology.

[00:19:18] Looking at circular economy in the built environment.

[00:19:21] How sustainable change happens in the real world.

[00:19:24] This is one of my favourite lessons

[00:19:25] and the kind of thing you really don't actually hear

[00:19:28] talked about very much anywhere else.

[00:19:31] And then I finished the course

[00:19:32] with some really inspiring case studies

[00:19:34] of how these things are happening in practice.

[00:19:37] There are case studies and examples throughout

[00:19:39] but I wanted to finish the course on a high point

[00:19:42] and on some inspiration

[00:19:43] and actually show you how progress is being made.

[00:19:46] And then the final lesson is about

[00:19:49] what do you do with this?

[00:19:50] What are your next steps towards

[00:19:51] meaningful climate action in your career?

[00:19:54] And I sort of want to give you some parting advice

[00:19:56] so that you can continue your learning

[00:19:58] and your growth beyond the course.

[00:20:00] Now the course isn't free, unfortunately

[00:20:04] but I have priced it as affordably as I can.

[00:20:06] It's priced at 105 euro

[00:20:09] which is about 90 pounds sterling

[00:20:10] or about 120 US dollars.

[00:20:13] And the important thing to say as well

[00:20:15] is that if you are one of the people

[00:20:17] who sign up within the first five days

[00:20:20] of the course launch

[00:20:21] there'll be a 50% discount.

[00:20:23] So you'll get half price of what you see there.

[00:20:26] So about 50 quid, 40 to 50 quid

[00:20:28] depending on your currency

[00:20:31] for a course that, you know

[00:20:33] I think that is extremely good value.

[00:20:35] But I wanted to give that as a sort of thank you

[00:20:37] to those who get in early

[00:20:38] and sign up straight away.

[00:20:41] So the course will be available soon.

[00:20:45] Get your email address in here

[00:20:46] if you haven't already

[00:20:48] but otherwise you will get an email

[00:20:50] within the next couple of days

[00:20:52] letting you know that it's live

[00:20:53] and with the discount code

[00:20:54] so that you can get that 50% off.

[00:20:57] Hopefully it's clear to you by now

[00:20:59] that you don't need any sort of technical background.

[00:21:00] You don't need to have any background

[00:21:02] in sustainability or science

[00:21:04] in order to get your head around this stuff.

[00:21:06] In the course I explain all these tricky concepts

[00:21:09] in plain English

[00:21:10] and in simple terms that are relevant for your work.

[00:21:13] Now I know not everyone has spare cash

[00:21:16] lying around to spend on courses like this

[00:21:18] as much as you might want to do it.

[00:21:21] And particularly if you're early in your career

[00:21:23] you may not have, you know,

[00:21:24] this might be a barrier for you

[00:21:26] the fact that there is a price

[00:21:27] even if it's 50% off.

[00:21:29] But what I'd invite you to do

[00:21:31] if you are working in an organization

[00:21:33] at the moment in a built environment organization

[00:21:35] is to go to your manager

[00:21:37] and ask about the training budget.

[00:21:39] Most architecture practices,

[00:21:41] planning, consultancies,

[00:21:43] even local authorities

[00:21:44] will have a training budget

[00:21:45] and they expect you to be proactive

[00:21:48] and to come up with solutions

[00:21:50] for moving forward in your career

[00:21:53] and learning these things.

[00:21:54] And I think most managers

[00:21:55] are actually quite impressed

[00:21:57] when employees come forward

[00:22:00] with suggestions and say

[00:22:01] I really want to learn about this.

[00:22:02] This is really important

[00:22:03] and here are the benefits.

[00:22:05] I'm going to start bringing this

[00:22:06] into the work that we do.

[00:22:07] And you can make that case for them.

[00:22:09] And it's very likely

[00:22:11] that they'll be able to cover

[00:22:12] the cost of the training

[00:22:13] or reimburse you for it.

[00:22:14] So if that is something

[00:22:15] that's on your mind,

[00:22:16] you think I'm not really sure

[00:22:17] if I have the money to spend,

[00:22:19] have a chat with your manager

[00:22:20] or whoever you need to at work

[00:22:22] and they may well be able to cover it.

[00:22:24] Okay, that's the end of the mini course.

[00:22:27] Keep an eye out for some emails next week

[00:22:29] with some information on booking

[00:22:31] and on the course code.

[00:22:33] And yeah, thanks for coming

[00:22:35] on this journey with me

[00:22:35] and I hope to see you

[00:22:36] joining the course in the near future.

[00:22:39] Thanks very much.